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unfair for O's

6/9/2010 11:58:19 AM
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thaBawse
6/9/2010 11:58:19 AM

for the small contingent of O's fans left (and yes i'm saying small because there are many phony flip-flop nats fans) i can't help but think how unfair it is to us that we've finished bottom 5 in the league for 10+ years running and have nothing to show for it but the nats already have 14 k's!!

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dm2012
6/9/2010 12:27:30 PM

I'm right there with you man, talk to Angelos about it.

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GPterps24
6/9/2010 12:31:45 PM

I'm a huge Orioles fan, and must admit it is hard to be an Orioles fan; however, I don't think it's unfair at all. The people who have been put in place in the upper management have not been doing their jobs and have squandered lots of talent. Am I upset that the Nationals are better than the Orioles and have a ridiculously great pitcher in Strasburg? Yes.  Was I cheering against him yesterday? Yes, but once I started watching more of the game, how could you cheer against someone so good?  What he did yesterday, granted against the Pirates, was incredible.  Unbelieveable talent/pitcher. Let's hope the Nats drop the ball on him and trade him to the Orioles.  Although, that might mean the end of his career and we'd be stuck with his contract like Albert Belle. Remember that guy?  Yeah the guy who left a dead patch of grass in the outfield from him standing in one place and being the laziest outfielder, ala Manny Ramierez.

Let's go O's! Keep the faith Orioles fans.

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Fsufootball
6/9/2010 12:50:26 PM

its tough when your first round pick from '06 is still playing single A ball

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MarkGC
6/9/2010 2:49:38 PM

Everytime Strasburg pitches, home or away, he is going to be a huge draw.  If I were the Nats, I would arrange the rotation so that Strasburg never pitches when the Nats are in Baltimore depriving Angelos of a big payday.  No sense helping the competition.  Unfortunately, for the Orioles, the baseball draft has few truly can't miss prospects and the Orioles never seem to land one.

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KingFelix34
6/9/2010 7:10:19 PM

Wow MarkGC its not that serious.  I would hardly call the O's the Nats' competition considering that they play in the AL.  By your logic, Strasburg just shouldn't pitch on the road, because every team would get a big "pay day" when he comes to town.

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Gonzaga04
6/9/2010 7:44:48 PM

6 words for you.  Ben McDonald.  Mark Prior. Kerry Wood.

 

Don't get too down on the O's.  They've still got the better farm system, and the better major league team.

The problem this year was attitude and manager.  They have a bunch of humble, reserved young guys (matusz, bergesen, wieters) and absolutely no leadership in the dugout.  (tejada maybe but hes concentrating on a position change)

markakis, izturis, wiggington, brian roberts.  very quiet guys.  luke scott only talks when hes not hearing voices in his head. 

Adam Jones was all set to be the vocal leader, then he got reigned in.  And now our gold glove center fielder is making catching and throwing errors--unheard of.

Just a series of unfortunate events.  Luckily, we got a guy coming up (Arrieta, Jake)  who has the reputation of being a grade 1 dick, and if you've ever seen Team America, you know that sometimes thats just what you need.

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Patches
6/9/2010 8:11:43 PM

Gonzaga04 you are out of your mind. Better major league team? what?! Better farm system? Are u kidding me? The Orioles are utterly hopeless until they get new ownership which isnt happening anytime soon. Dont get your panties in a bunch, because your team is now second tier to the Nats. With your ace being Kevin Millwood....WOW.

 

Bryce Harper will be way better then Manny Machado will ever amount too.

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Gonzaga04
6/9/2010 8:32:57 PM

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/01/26/2010-farm-system-rankings/

 

that is a ranking of farm systems from january.  after we called up matusz, wieters, and tillman and BEFORE you called up Strasburg.

this is not even a question to people who follow baseball. 

as far as better team, i believe, top to bottom our lineup is better than yours.  from top to bottom i believe our pitching staff is better than yours.

the difference right now is attitude.  riggleman was put in a no expectation situation and a lot of your players stepped up (with alot of help from proven winners such as pudge)

how did the nats do when their most established veteran was Adam Dunn? (see: Blew, They)

The Nats got rolling with weak scheduling and are still in last place.  LAST PLACE. (3-7 last 10 games)

O's got stifled with bad managerial decisions that led to --in my opinion--the injury of Brian Roberts, and embarrasment of Brad Bergeson who had Matusz jump in him the rotation for no apparent reason.

Baseball is a mental game.  Dave trembley was the Scarecrow of Managers.

 

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Zmelo15
6/9/2010 8:37:49 PM

Nats 28-31

O's 16-42

I'm jus saying......

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burns15
6/9/2010 8:48:40 PM

Gonzaga04

 

Nobody cares what you think of your lineup and rotation compared to the Nats. The fact is you have by far the worst record in the major leagues, are the laughingstock of the major leagues, and are already 22 games out of first place!

 

And here is an accurate comparison for your info from a Dodgers fan (fan of neither team)

 

Pudge= Wieters --- Wieters has blown since being called up

Dunn > Wiggington

Guzman = Roberts

Desmond > Izturis --- Izturis cant hit a lick, I know cuz he played for LA

Zimmerman >> Tejada

Morgan = Jones --- Jones has been terrible this year (he is hitting .249)

Willingham = Scott

Bernadina << Markakis

LINEUP ADVANTAGE: Nats

Strasburg >>> Millwood

Lannan < Guthrie

Olsen > Matusz

Hernandez >> Bergersen

Atilano = Hernandez

ROTATION ADVANTAGE: Nats

And record advantage Nats, which is all that matters

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Gonzaga04
6/9/2010 9:05:42 PM

great, you win the 2010 most super awesomest last place trophy.

im saying moving forward, the only player i would even consider trading for in the nationals lineup is morgan--EDIT: i take it back.  there is exactly nobody I would consider moving anybody for.

zimmerman = do not want.

on the flip side

strasburg of course is very exciting in the rotation, but obviously you never took the 6 words I gave you.

 

enjoy the fanfare. 

 

O'S fans get excited for ARRIETA FEST!!!  OMFG! ST. JAKE!!1

cue up John Denver...

 

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Patches
6/9/2010 9:20:21 PM

Face the facts, the orioles are the worst team in baseball, while the nationals have two of the most exciting prospects in baseball and a good young core of players to build around. Its a great time to be a Nationals fan. Angelos and the O's arn't going anywhere anytime soon.

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Gonzaga04
6/9/2010 9:34:27 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YAuaSOanYc

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mvpoftheyr
6/9/2010 9:43:43 PM

Gonzaga04,

You are just plain ignorant if you would not trade for any single player on the Nationals.  I am a fan of neither of the two teams in question and your argument reeks of jealousy towards the Nationals.  Sure, they are in last place, but the top of their division is within their reach and like others have said, their record blows the O's record out of the water.  I realize that a good amount of this may be attributed to the fact that the O's play in the AL East but it could be argued that the NL East is possibly the best and most competitive division in the NL this year.  The whole point of the marathon MLB regular season is to win enough games to make the playoffs and so far, this year, the Nationals are doing a much better job of that than the O's.

I don't understand why you would not want a player like Ryan Zimmerman or a prospect like Steven Strasburg in your organization.  I would also like to see someone try to make the case that they would prefer Garrett Adkins over Adam Dunn. 

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Gonzaga04
6/9/2010 10:37:56 PM

i didnt say i didnt want.  i said i wouldnt trade for.  the nats would package players for adam jones, nick markakis, matt wieters.  i cant see the o's packaging anybody for adam dunn, morgan, or even zimmerman.

i also said i would trade for strasburg in so many words.  that being said, strasburg has pitched one game in the majors.  and it was great.  and it was against the pirates.  hopefully his ligaments hold up.  they did not for mark prior.  they did not for kerry wood. 

the season is lost for the O's.  I dont think anyone has realistic playoff expectations for the Nats.  this year is a wash.  if the O's get a manager like Bobby Valentine who is an outspoken leader and has an us against them type mentality, as well as a clubhouse leader-- a jason varitek type, then i like the O's prospects (literal and figurative)  much MUCH better than the Nationals.

 

just my opinion.  Nats are building, but dont think they are anywhere near the fever pitch thats being blasted across the beltway.

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KingFelix34
6/9/2010 10:47:42 PM

I refuse to throw down on Strasburg because a few highly touted pitching prospects got hurt.  Don't be a moron.  Pitchers get hurt because of flawed mechanics.  Felix Hernandez has been pitching in the major leagues since age 19 in 2005 and has not even had a hint of arm trouble, and Felix was one of the most highly touted pitching prospects in MLB history.  The guys that you compared Strasburg to are lankier and not as well built, and these pitchers usually have arm problems because of poor mechanics that rely too much on the torque generated by their elbows and shoulders instead of their legs and core.  Strasburg isn't exactly a tank, but he's got more body mass, great mechanics, and a work ethic to keep his mechanics on point and to continue getting stronger to build stamina and preserve his arm.

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Gonzaga04
6/9/2010 10:55:05 PM

 

1.  this is what everyone said about prior

Mark Prior's pitching mechanics have been the subject of much attention throughout his career. As a prospect, his symmetrical, seemingly effortless delivery was widely regarded as mechanically efficient and sound. Prior's former personal pitching coach Tom House labeled the right-hander a "can't-miss" prospect.[10] However, after Prior suffered a series of debilitating arm injuries, many experts have re-examined Prior's delivery.

2.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/baseball/pitching/ProfessionalPitcherAnalyses/StephenStrasburg.html

 

3.  i am not predicting an injury to Strasburg.  im just highlighting the high occurence of arm injury to high speed pitchers.

 

my point is, and I enjoy taking on all comers so tell your friends, that you dont know until you know with pitchers.

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KingFelix34
6/9/2010 10:58:24 PM

And I think the O's are a little bit farther away from success than you think.  A washed up overrated catcher and a good manager means the O's may only lose 100 games instead of 105.  Don't kid yourself.  If this year is any evidence, the Nationals are far ahead of the O's.  Strasburg will be a good pitcher.  Harper is going to be a beast.  Zimmerman is one of the most complete players in the MLB.  Who do the O's have?  They have an incompetent owner who found a way to alienate a formerly very strong fanbase and destroy any hope that the O's have of being a winner.  The best players that the O's have had the last decade are all cheaters (Tejada, Palmeiro, Roberts).  Also, don't blame the division.  The Rays found a way into contention within 10 years of its inception.  The Orioles have had their opportunities and the management has screwed it all up.

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Gonzaga04
6/9/2010 11:06:15 PM

i said a jason varitek type.  a gritty leader.  i dont actually want jason varitek.

i never blamed the division; i think that is a bogus argument.  the os were the class of the division 10 years ago and they can be again.

i guess we'll see.  its very easy to become jaded after a superbowl like atmosphere and 1 measley win.  I hope you come back at this time next season and back your team then.

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jr327
6/9/2010 11:46:37 PM
basically your saying you dont want a pitcher with a plus fastball a plus plus curve a plus change and throws upper 90s to 100 and that you dont want oje of the best 3rd baseman in the league and a great leader in zimmerman
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Gonzaga04
6/10/2010 12:10:44 AM

didnt say that.  didnt say that. didnt say that.  oh theres one, yea zimmerman is a temperamental crybaby.  keep him.

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UnitedSkins
6/10/2010 12:31:53 AM

Blame the manager all you want. Mike Hargrove wasn't the reason the O's sucked from '00 to '03. Sam Perlozzo wasn't the reason they sucked from '05 to '07, and Dave Trembley isn't the reason they've sucked since then. And about Riggleman walking into a no-expectation situation: No one outside of Baltimore expected anything more than a last place finish out of the O's this year. You can't get lower expectations than last place.

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burns15
6/10/2010 1:32:54 AM

The Orioles were not the class of the division 10 years ago, try 15 years ago bud.... and I dont think there is a team in the majors who would not trade for Zimmerman, outside of the Rays (Longoria), Yankees (A-Rod), and Dbacks (Reynolds). Zimmerman is a top 5 3rd baseman, and gold glove quality fielder.

 

And Adam Jones sucks! I would never trade for Jones with any team in the majors, save the Royals. Jones is the prototypical 5 tool player who tantalizes with potential but never comes through. Markakis is a nice player, but not as good as Zimmerman, and Wieters has yet to show anything in the bigs. Sorry there is one player on the O's (Markakais) that I would trade for if I were the Nats, where as the O's could use Strasburg, Pudge, Zimmerman, Dunn, Olsen, Livan, Storen, and Capps

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Gonzaga04
6/10/2010 2:18:43 AM

yawn, we'll see.  you guys definitely have the more obvious, easier argument to make coming off of strasburg fest '10.

 

this reminds me of redskin season when all the fans latch on to one good thing and totally lose perspective. (or vice versa like is happening currently)

the orioles rebuilding process is years in the making involving multiple players,  not one or two nice pieces that may or may not pan out.

strasburg is good. bryce harper is good.  there have been a lot of prospects just as touted as them that didnt do anything in the major leagues.  i think they will. 

but even in a best case scenario, lets say they are both on the team this time next year, to think that the nats are further along than the O's is just a ridiculous thing to say. 

before you respond please go find some evidence for what you are saying, thus far you have given none.

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KingFelix34
6/14/2010 5:13:37 PM

Here's some evidence:  0 winning seasons in 12 years.  The O's have been rebuilding since 1997.  They have botched every good prospect, every good situation that has come their  way because their management is god awful.  Angelos has always put business ahead of winning, and still does not realize that they go hand in hand.